Curse

Skuld · Feb 20, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

you should get it after ascencion, some secondry prof type quest

milan · Feb 20, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

/unsigned
Don't personally like the idea, finding it hard to believe that everyone finds it so difficult to get skills.

mohh · Feb 24, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

All of you that disagree must not mind speding hours upon hours to get all of your skills, only to have to do it all over again if you start a new character. Honestly, I don't see why any one would object to the idea. Like I said earlier, what good would it be for a lvl 3 character to have a skill from the Wilds if they can't put any attributes into it, to make it worthwhile?

If you are all worried about elites, then give only non-elites. I don't have a problem with having to go skill capping.

Also, if you really enjoy the quests and missions, who said that you had to stop doing them? Wouldn't you want to do them because you wanted to and not 'cause you had to?

The Fox · Feb 24, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

/unsigned
Don't personally like the idea, finding it hard to believe that everyone finds it so difficult to get skills.

I like this because it encourges people to try out new builds. Currently most people use something close to a cookie cutter. Even if they had an infinite supply of gold, they would be severly limited by what they could try due to the slow aquisition of skill points.

I've deleted multipule characters with hundreds of hours played, and even recreated the same classes, just so i could get the skill points to try various builds.

Let the people who want to try the off the wall builds do it. Most of them will not be any good anyways.

/signed

Blair46 · Feb 24, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

I like this because it encourges people to try out new builds. Currently most people use something close to a cookie cutter. Even if they had an infinite supply of gold, they would be severly limited by what they could try due to the slow aquisition of skill points.

I've deleted multipule characters with hundreds of hours played, and even recreated the same classes, just so i could get the skill points to try various builds.

Let the people who want to try the off the wall builds do it. Most of them will not be any good anyways.

/signed

I guess PvP characters are still unheard of these days.

I agree with Deathqueen, and I have no problem going through the game to level up and get skills if I choose to be a PvE character. If you want access to your old skills to try out a new build, just click Create a Character, and choose PvP. The economy is buggered as it is, and being given free access to all of your old skills will effectively kill off one of the most important gold sinks (say what you want about 15k armor, but we spend a LOT of money on skills costing 1k a pop near end-game, and most people don't even have 15k armor) in Guild Wars (Ember Light Camp especially).

/unsigned, but it doesn't really matter what I say because ArenaNET wouldn't put this in.

Speaking of Grind however, if you think this game has any form of Grind, play World of Warcraft, NexusTK, PlanetSide, EverQuest games, Phantasy Star Online, RuneScape, etc, etc.. This game has pretty much no grind compared to almost every single mmo out there.

Epinephrine · Feb 24, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blair46

Speaking of Grind however, if you think this game has any form of Grind, play World of Warcraft, NexusTK, PlanetSide, EverQuest games, Phantasy Star Online, RuneScape, etc, etc.. This game has pretty much no grind compared to almost every single mmo out there.

Who cares? Sorry to be direct, but I hate MMOs. I've tried a few, detest them. That's why I play GW, the non-MMO feel - and it has too much grind for what it is. PvE takes far too long to unlock for example a tertiary profession; my ranger has essentially full warrior and monk secondaries at this point, and a small smattering of useful skills from elementalist, mesmer and necromancer (enough to run as a touch ranger, a conjure/barrage or to do a few cute tricks with mesmer skills) but the fact is that if I want more than a cookie cutter build from one of those three it'll take a HUGE investment of time, more than it has to unlock my monk and warrior stuff (4 warrior elites to go, woot!)

I hate having to gain XP to get these skills, and that the only efficient way is to take some boring solo build out and solo stuff. I like trying new builds, and if I'm going to goof around in PvE I want to be free to play around with my toon.

milan · Feb 24, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Am I playing this game any differently from everyone else?

With a monk I've played a total of 60 hours pve - hours that I've enjoyed in a pve sense, played through missions, done quests, a little farming and helping out guildies. The character was not run anywhere and I've got 90% of all monk skills (elites included), about 70% of mes skills, and about 60% of nec skills. - Edited to say this was on a new account.

If what you mean by 'grind' is playing the game, farming, redoing missions and helping others then you're in the wrong game, newflash for you - That is PvE.

Epinephrine · Feb 24, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

Am I playing this game any differently from everyone else?

With a monk I've played a total of 60 hours pve - hours that I've enjoyed in a pve sense, played through missions, done quests, a little farming and helping out guildies. The character was not run anywhere and I've got 90% of all monk skills (elites included), about 70% of mes skills, and about 60% of nec skills. - Edited to say this was on a new account.

If what you mean by 'grind' is playing the game, farming, redoing missions and helping others then you're in the wrong game, newflash for you - That is PvE.

First, monks are the easiest to gain XP with, as there are simple solo builds and farming spots. Unlocking with a monk is thus easier.

Second, between your classes you are claiming in the realm of 165 skills out of the 225 available for those three classes, that's not really that many.

You miss the point if you do it by proportions alone - by that logic, since I have ~20 skills within an hour of playing when I rush through pre- and grab a few skills in Ascalon I could easily unlock all 6 classes in 24 hours of play. (24*20 is 480, so a few days!) What's everyone complaining about?

Your primary profession you can get 42 of your 76 profession skills from quests, you have 90%, so you bought 26; that's 26 skill points and a fair chunk of cash.

Your secondary profession you would have acquired 43 of your 77 profession skills from questing, buying the other 11 or so; 11 more skill points, a bunch more cash.

Of the 60% for your third profession, you can get 13 from quests, so those don't count - the other 32 take skill points though - that's 32 skill points and 32k in gold.

By your claim, you are 167/225 thus, implying that you are 74% of the way there - but 98 of those were freebies essentially - you are less than 55% of the way there if you count only the ones you had to buy with skill points (167-98 = 69, 69/127). The missions and first 20 or so skillpoints are freebies really, you get those by levelling up normally, and you'll have the cash to buy them easily.

So really, the 19 skill points you gain from levelling, the 24 from missions and the 1 from pre-searing quest don't count either, you barely grind those - so that's 44 more skills you really didn't earn yet, or grind for... so instead of being 167/225, or even 69/127, you are actually more like 25/83, or 30% of the way to grinding through the skills for 3 professions. You are saying that you thus earned 23 extra levels essentially, in 60 hours of play; assuming you took maybe 20-30 hours to hit level 20 and do all the missions (impressive, but not impossible) you'd have earned ~2/3 of a skillpoint per hour after that, a reasonable rate I guess - it actually implies a fair amount of XP , as you certainly won't get that much doing random stuff in parties of 8. At that rate you'll need at least 90 more hours of play to polish off those skills, and that's actually fast. If you want to unlock the other three you are in for a rough time, you've burnt all your freebie skill point, you don't get more than a handful of quests per class, and there are ~230 more skills to go - so at least 300 more hours of grind. Yeah, that's grind in my book.

Blair46 · Feb 24, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Who cares? Sorry to be direct, but I hate MMOs. I've tried a few, detest them. That's why I play GW, the non-MMO feel - and it has too much grind for what it is. PvE takes far too long to unlock for example a tertiary profession; my ranger has essentially full warrior and monk secondaries at this point, and a small smattering of useful skills from elementalist, mesmer and necromancer (enough to run as a touch ranger, a conjure/barrage or to do a few cute tricks with mesmer skills) but the fact is that if I want more than a cookie cutter build from one of those three it'll take a HUGE investment of time, more than it has to unlock my monk and warrior stuff (4 warrior elites to go, woot!)

I hate having to gain XP to get these skills, and that the only efficient way is to take some boring solo build out and solo stuff. I like trying new builds, and if I'm going to goof around in PvE I want to be free to play around with my toon.

You seem to care way too much about the extremely limited amount of supposed Grind in Guild Wars. I'm a casual player of it, and I don't see any form of grind that annoys me.

I really think that having to make your own guy learn his own skills in the PvE portion of the game makes sense from a story-line point of view. I don't see how one character, not TOON, we're not watching Tiny Toons, I don't see any RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing multicolour rabbits speaking english with whiny voices in Guild Wars.

Anyways, I don't see how one character can just give and teach another character all these skills.. Storys with characters just don't happen like that. Devona can't just mindmeld with Aiden to give him all her leet hammer skills.

But seriously for a moment, I don't care what you think grinding is, Guild Wars is a MMO-style Online RPG. RPG's have grind in some way, shape or form, it's called building up your character, which you take through a story.

I know you don't care about the economy in Guild Wars, it clearly shows. Just realize that if the economy gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed because of this idea, which it really would, then tons of other parts of the game will get RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed as well.

I know this idea won't happen, just like any form of UAS button. Since ArenaNET hasn't done anything like this, it would be a total slap in the face to anyone who has spent the time to make 4 characters that overlapped when it comes to skills, having to spend the time to get all the skills.

Speaking of skills and elites though, it doesn't take long to get skills if you've already done it once. Because you should have the money to just buy them, pay for a run to get to sanctum cay, then bam, you're in the desert.

But yea, complete slap in the face to anyone who has spent the last year getting the skills on multiple characters, so I do not see this happening at all, not only because of this, but it will eliminate a very efficient gold sink.

Live with it.

If you don't want grind, go play a different game that is of a different genre. Go play Tetris.

EDIT: Also of note, you keep complaining, wah wah wah wah GRIND GRIND GRIND WAH WAH WAH WAH.

You know what those repeatable quests do? They give you TONS of XP. DO THOSE A FEW TIMES.

Epinephrine · Feb 24, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Just realize that if the economy gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed because of this idea, which it really would, then tons of other parts of the game will get RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed as well.

Ah the poetic emphasis an argument can be given by having a 40 word vocabulary. Grow up.

Quote:

EDIT: Also of note, you keep complaining, wah wah wah wah GRIND GRIND GRIND WAH WAH WAH WAH.

You know what those repeatable quests do? They give you TONS of XP. DO THOSE A FEW TIMES.

Lol... true to form, you miss the point completely. To avoid grind, simply do something over and over... wonderful suggestion. Not everyone takes joy in doing something over and over, especially with the same build. GW was meant to be different, and it is in so many ways - and they've reduced grind well. Thank god they got rid of refund points, I hated that - you want to try something new, it doesn't work, you are stuck trying to earn XP with a gimped build to try another combo - it completely restricted the desire to try new things.

They got smart about that, realised that it didn't matter, that people wanted to experiment. Well, once you finish the game, have done all the missions on 3 different PvE toons, and are bored, it'd be nice to be able to try new stuff in PvE without grinding the crap out of it. It's great that there are secondary profession changers, that's part of what I love about the game - I don't tneed to go grind a new toon just to try a R/E instead of a R/W for example - but it still takes a long tiome to try anything truly new with a toon. If they were willing to re-assess once with refund points, and again with the price cap on skills, I don't see why they wouldn't look at a way to speed unlocking for toons who have finished the game.

fiery · Feb 24, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

a lvl 3 cannot do this

A level 3 can't or maybe can, but wanna see my ascended level 7?

Epinephrine · Feb 24, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

A level 3 can't or maybe can, but wanna see my ascended level 7?

Impossible. Ascension gains 50k experience. Prior to that it brought the player to level 20. As only 47,000XP is needed to hit level 11 you are a minimum of level 11 if you ascend. Being in the Fire Islands != ascended.

Diablo™ · Feb 24, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

/signed

The issue is not the difficulty of getting these skills, anyone can cap HH and Soj with some extra time. The word "unlocked" means absolutely nothing to us, it serves no reward for exclusive PVE Players. If Anet is serious about balancing the appeal of PVE and PVP, make these unlocked skills at least somewhat valuable for the PVE folks.

frickett · Feb 24, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

I am a new player, I have a warrior/necromancer, level 17, Do you mean if i make a new pve necromancer/monk, the new character wont have any of the necro skills I have already unlocked? However, if I create a pvp Necro/monk, I will have those skills available, how is that fair?

PrincessKyra · Feb 24, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Anet, please please please do this!

/SIGNED

Blair46 · Feb 24, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Face it, this won't happen. Or atleast, it SHOULDN'T happen.

On another note, I find this rather hilarious.. ..actually, extremely hysterical. I don't find this other thread funny, just how it relates to this one.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=126874

Wow, a thread in this same section that's actually talking about having too much XP to spend on things. With all these skill points they are able to get all the skills they want without having to steal it from their other characters. <--- CHARACTERS.. NOT TOONS.

EDIT: Another thing I'd like to point out is that I clearly have used more than 40 different words in this thread, so your 40 word vocabulary "insult" was quite ignorant.

Ken Dei · Feb 24, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

"Signet of Minor Approval"

I'm iffy, has good and bad, besides you already can't keep a lvl 3 using Elites, they just get run....

Undivine · Feb 25, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Don't even bother with the "but it doesn't make sense story-wise" arguement. This game is not about story. Sad but true. Neverwinter Nights was about story. Final Fantasy was about story. Baldur's Gate (the PC game) was about story. This game's story is crap and completely secondary to everything else.

There's only the most flimsy excuse to have people make guilds that essentially do nothing but talk and fight with other guilds. Being able to change your secondary back and forth as much as you want in the first place is silly from a story standpoint. Having a necro be able to multiclass with monk is ignored as well, though it shouldn't work since their powers rely on opposing gods. And why exactly do people kill Glint? Only because she's the dragon and you've got to be able to kill the dragon in an RPG. It's not all that clear what ascension actually does or why we needed to do it. It didn't come into play during the final missions. People shouldn't be able to "map" to anwhere they've visited in the middle of battle. And I'm sure there will be a bullshit excuse for getting us to Cantha, or perhaps they won't even bother with an excuse. We will just go there for the sake of seeing and doing interesting stuff.

Then there is the story itself, which is full of cheese. Ascalon is completely ignored after you leave it. You never hear anything about it again. What happened to King Adleburn and the Charr? I could go on about how corny the actual story is, be that would litter this thread with spoilers, and I know we have some new players in here.

So... why should this feature not be put in again?

TGgold · Feb 25, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Since I'm on my fifth character, I'd definately want to sign this.

I don't understand the people opposed to it. Are they reading the thread? I mean, you'd need to ascend and do the Path Quest. I doubt many level 3s could do that. *in fact, you have to be lvl 11 if you've ascended :P *

I mean, I've played through as most classes, and I think this would finally make ascending more...special? I mean, you're being imbued with godly energy, it would make sense.

I think if ANET really wants to get PvE-ers more into PvP, they'd consider this. Higher Level Pvp is all about builds. If you can't make the build, you don't play. It's as easy as that. I don't like the fact that if I wanted to say, use a Me/R build, And I had say, spent, 60 hours on a R/Mo and 80 on my Me/E, I think it's warrented that if I did the work to get the ranger skills for my ranger, I should be able to access them through the divine energy granted form changing second professions and asention. Instead of having to spend hours getting the Ranger skills again.

It just makes more sense from a versatil PvE into PvP standpoint.